in trouble with serch engines indexing

**in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:27 AM

I'm a bit in trouble wit search engine indexing for my hoply
international web site. :-)

It meet some difficulties to be indexed by google in English so I answer
myself about possible something wrong in my meta tags.

For example:

- <html lang="en"> + <meta http-equiv="content-language" content="en">
--> Probably one of these could be no necessary!?

- <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1"> Is this the same you use? I use for my italian web-
site. Is it the same for yours?

<meta name="distribution" content="global"> --> Is for this better to
use <"uk, us, aus"> ?

- Besides I wonder if Google and othe rsearch engines look at the
correct ortography!?

The other meta tags I use are: keywords, description, abstract,
DC.title, rating, author, owner, robots, fragma + no-cahe, imagetoolbar
+ no and window-target + _top.

can anyone help me to understand if is there anything wrong?

Thanks

**Re: in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:27 AM

A fistfull of liras <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote in
news:em0o7l$9bo$EMAIL REMOVED:

> I'm a bit in trouble wit search engine indexing for my hoply
> international web site. :-)
>
> It meet some difficulties to be indexed by google in English so I answer
> myself about possible something wrong in my meta tags.
>

Meta tags will be of no use to you.
I believe that the issue might be where your web site is hosted.

Here is an example:
Go to www.google.de
Search for "Chevrolet"

Then, go to www.google.fr
Search for "Chevrolet"

Then, go to www.google.com
Search for "Chevrolet"

See how the search results are different? I mean, they're all for the same
company of course, but imagine if the search terms a person used were not
for the name of a multi-national corporation? The search results would be
*vastly* different.

If it is that important to your business to reach US-based users, you might
want to consider hosting in the US.

--
Karl Groves
www.karlcore.com

**Re: in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:27 AM

Karl Groves wrote:
> A fistfull of liras <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote in
> news:em0o7l$9bo$EMAIL REMOVED:
>
>> I'm a bit in trouble wit search engine indexing for my hoply
>> international web site. :-)
>>
>> It meet some difficulties to be indexed by google in English so I answer
>> myself about possible something wrong in my meta tags.
>>
>
> Meta tags will be of no use to you.
> I believe that the issue might be where your web site is hosted.
>
> Here is an example:
> Go to www.google.de
> Search for "Chevrolet"
>
> Then, go to www.google.fr
> Search for "Chevrolet"
>
> Then, go to www.google.com
> Search for "Chevrolet"
>
> See how the search results are different? I mean, they're all for the same
> company of course, but imagine if the search terms a person used were not
> for the name of a multi-national corporation? The search results would be
> *vastly* different.
>
> If it is that important to your business to reach US-based users, you might
> want to consider hosting in the US.
>
>
>
I'm sorry I can see almost the same results cause of I use an italian
browser so I have, as a result, every time, the Chevrolet Italia web
site at the top of the search.
So I think:

- First: I think I'll neeed to have a US browser, but will it be able to
display your same results, or do I need also to have a US operating
system, to have a different result?

- Afterwards I need to know about a good hosting service I could pay
with Visa credit card. I would like to know different cl***-service:
About the Economic I need it offer mainly no limit of Gb download/month
and better if also with wide band and the possibility of statistics
service by logs analisis. an other important caratheristic I need is
a user interface by mail, or better ...not by phone.
Can you tell me something about good hosting services in US like these?

- And then I've an other little problem: do I need to register my
magazine, also in US (and be recagnized as a US journalist) if I use a
US hosting service, or my technical magazine remains legally in my country?
Thanks

**Re: in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:27 AM

On Dec 16, 5:22 pm, A fistfull of liras
<manisudateNOS...@dupiotte.org.invalid> wrote:
> Karl Groves wrote:
> > A fistfull of liras <manisudateNOS...@dupiotte.org.invalid> wrote in
> >news:em0o7l$9bo$EMAIL REMOVED:
>
> >> I'm a bit in trouble wit search engine indexing for my hoply
> >> international web site. :-)
>
> >> It meet some difficulties to be indexed by google in English so I answer
> >> myself about possible something wrong in my meta tags.
>
> > Meta tags will be of no use to you.
> > I believe that the issue might be where your web site is hosted.
>
> > Here is an example:
> > Go towww.google.de
> > Search for "Chevrolet"
>
> > Then, go towww.google.fr
> > Search for "Chevrolet"
>
> > Then, go towww.google.com
> > Search for "Chevrolet"
>
> > See how the search results are different? I mean, they're all for the same
> > company of course, but imagine if the search terms a person used were not
> > for the name of a multi-national corporation? The search results would be
> > *vastly* different.
>
> > If it is that important to your business to reach US-based users, you might
> > want to consider hosting in the US.I'm sorry I can see almost the same results cause of I use an italian
> browser so I have, as a result, every time, the Chevrolet Italia web
> site at the top of the search.
> So I think:
>
> - First: I think I'll neeed to have a US browser, but will it be able to
> display your same results, or do I need also to have a US operating
> system, to have a different result?
>
> - Afterwards I need to know about a good hosting service I could pay
> with Visa credit card. I would like to know different cl***-service:
> About the Economic I need it offer mainly no limit of Gb download/month
> and better if also with wide band and the possibility of statistics
> service by logs analisis. an other important caratheristic I need is
> a user interface by mail, or better ...not by phone.
> Can you tell me something about good hosting services in US like these?
>
> - And then I've an other little problem: do I need to register my
> magazine, also in US (and be recagnized as a US journalist) if I use a
> US hosting service, or my technical magazine remains legally in my country?
> Thanks- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

There are various issues here - if you want to create a truly
international website which supports various languages, most search
engines will attempt to detect the language it is written in. Although
you can use the meta tags to specify the language of the page, this may
***ist, but seems unecessary as many websites do not specify their
language.

When you submit your website to various search engines, some will only
accept content in specified languages, or on specified server
extensions (eg .fr for france - .com is seen as more international and
accepted by the vast majority). Some of the search engines, such as
google, have different search engines for each country, eg. google.com
(all), google.fr (France), google.co.uk (UK). The country specific
variants allow you to search all of the internet or to look for
websites within that country.

Where the server is physically situated does not appear to have much
impact (if any), it is more to do with the extension on your website
which can act as a country identifier, the character set used
(ISO-8859-1 is the European standard) and the actual language used
within the text - I guess they look for common words in each language
to ascertain the language (eg. le / la in french, the in English) and
build all of this into the weightings.

You can try this out for yourself - www.rwapservices.co.uk appears on
http://google.co.uk under websites in the UK although it is based on an
american server.

OK so what impact does this have on your website?

1) You need to ensure that the language you use is correct - poor
translation and typing errors could mean that the various language
variants are not picked up. Get someone to proof read it in each
language and ensure that it reads correctly - don't forget that a lot
of typing errors, poor language or grammatical errors could affect your
rankings for each language.
2) Include <HTML LANG="en-gb"> for example to identify UK English in
the header
3) Consider hosting each language variant on a different domain - eg.
foobar.com for international, foobar.it for italian, and foobar.co.uk
for English.

How do you test the results?

There is no need to install a different browser version, or different
operating system version on your computer, the one you already have
will do just fine. However don't expect the English version of your
website to appear in an Italian search engine. Rather than just using
the search engine built into your browser, go directly to the search
engine site - try the various country variants of google to look for
indexing and search engine ranks (or use a tool such as IBP).

There are plenty of good webhosts throughout the world, we use iPower
which are US based and good value, but as I say, I do not think it is
necessary to move your site to an American server to cover the US
version of the English language (think about how many countries speak
English for example).

Finally you talk about registering your magazine. I presume it is an
online magazine only.

There are copyright laws throughout the world which protect your
content - the problem is more to do with how you protect that copyright
and enforce it. The best you can do realistically on the internet is
to produce the articles as a pdf with embedded copyright watermarks.
You can do similar things with graphics, images and videos. This will
not stop people using it themselves (plagurising) your content or even
just copying it to their website in the knowledge that you will
struggle to bring legal action against them

For example, take my own website, we are based in the UK, have a US
hosting company but strictly the content is not delivered until viewed
by someone using a browser (say yourself in Italy) - now which court
has jurisdiction and which country's copyright laws apply? I daresay
there have been court cases about this sort of thing already, but you
can imagine the legal wrangle which would follow and how much damage
has actually been done to your own site if it is freely viewable
content ?

Rich Mellor
www.internetbusinessangels.com

**Re: in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:28 AM

Karl Groves <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:

> If it is that important to your business to reach US-based users, you
> might want to consider hosting in the US.

> Here is an example:
> Go to www.google.de
> Search for "Chevrolet"

Written in German

> Then, go to www.google.fr
> Search for "Chevrolet"

Written in French

> Then, go to www.google.com
> Search for "Chevrolet"

As expected, in English.

My best guess: it has more (or everything) to do with the language the
page is written in compared to the exact location.

Example:
http://www.google.nl/search?q=perl%20programmeur

Hosted in the US.

Below me are several sites that are as far as I know hosted in the NL,
moreover, they use the NL tld. Yet I am #1 and #2.

Ditto for:
http://www.google.be/search?q=perl%20programmeur

And:
http://www.google.com/search?q=perl%20programmeur

I mean, if one uses .com with a Dutch query, what should Google do? Show
only .com domains hosted in the Netherlands? Wouldn't that be silly? And
if one searches with google.nl, should it show:

..nl TLDs hosted in the Netherlands
..nl TLDs no matter where hosted
any TLD that has pages written in Dutch

--
John Need help with SEO? Get started with a SEO report of your site:

--> http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

**Re: in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:28 AM

"rwap" <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:

> On Dec 16, 5:22 pm, A fistfull of liras
> <manisudateNOS...@dupiotte.org.invalid> wrote:

[..]

>> - First: I think I'll neeed to have a US browser, but will it be able
>> to display your same results, or do I need also to have a US
>> operating system, to have a different result?

Not that I know, you can probably change the language preferences of
your browser (I am quite sure with Firefox you can). Also Google stores
language preferences in cookies afaik. I have used US Firefox on a
Spanish edition of XP, and I could go to google.com and get text in
English.

> google, have different search engines for each country, eg. google.com
> (all), google.fr (France), google.co.uk (UK). The country specific
> variants allow you to search all of the internet or to look for
> websites within that country.

or for pages only in that language, at least Google nl does:

O het Internet O pagina's in het Nederlands O pagina's uit Nederland

> There are copyright laws throughout the world which protect your
> content - the problem is more to do with how you protect that
> copyright and enforce it. The best you can do realistically on the
> internet is to produce the articles as a pdf with embedded copyright
> watermarks. You can do similar things with graphics, images and
> videos. This will not stop people using it themselves (plagurising)
> your content or even just copying it to their website in the knowledge
> that you will struggle to bring legal action against them

Contact a lawyer for legal advice, don't rely on advice given on Usenet
:-) See: http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

> For example, take my own website, we are based in the UK, have a US
> hosting company but strictly the content is not delivered until viewed
> by someone using a browser (say yourself in Italy) - now which court
> has jurisdiction and which country's copyright laws apply?

UK, US and Italy all follow the Berne copyright convention I guess.

> I daresay
> there have been court cases about this sort of thing already, but you
> can imagine the legal wrangle which would follow and how much damage
> has actually been done to your own site if it is freely viewable
> content ?

The problem stays the same if it's non-freely viewable content. Check
out bit torrent to get what I mean.

--
John Need help with SEO? Get started with a SEO report of your site:

--> http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

**Re: in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:28 AM

John Bokma wrote:
> Karl Groves <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:
>
>> If it is that important to your business to reach US-based users, you
>> might want to consider hosting in the US.
>
>> Here is an example:
>> Go to www.google.de
>> Search for "Chevrolet"
>
> Written in German
>
>
>> Then, go to www.google.fr
>> Search for "Chevrolet"
>
> Written in French
>
>> Then, go to www.google.com
>> Search for "Chevrolet"
>
> As expected, in English.
>
> My best guess: it has more (or everything) to do with the language the
> page is written in compared to the exact location.
>

So it is more likely I talk a (bad) UK english; this is what we study at
school, besides my english web site is on a co.uk domain.

What remains is are there any important meta tags to better guide search
engine crawlers (particularly is better: <html lang="en-uk"></html> or
<meta http-equiv="content-language" content="en-uk">
and I if I put "en-uk" search engine permit also the access to en-US,
en-AUS users, or only to en-UK ones?

Another question: can be possible that a server be in trouble when it
servs sites'pages to a certain country users? ...I remember months ago
my web site host said they were some problem with spain users i don't
know why!
....in any case
I thank all of you very much :-)

> Example:
> http://www.google.nl/search?q=perl%20programmeur
>
> Hosted in the US.
>
> Below me are several sites that are as far as I know hosted in the NL,
> moreover, they use the NL tld. Yet I am #1 and #2.
>
> Ditto for:
> http://www.google.be/search?q=perl%20programmeur
>
> And:
> http://www.google.com/search?q=perl%20programmeur
>
> I mean, if one uses .com with a Dutch query, what should Google do? Show
> only .com domains hosted in the Netherlands? Wouldn't that be silly? And
> if one searches with google.nl, should it show:
>
> .nl TLDs hosted in the Netherlands
> .nl TLDs no matter where hosted
> any TLD that has pages written in Dutch
>

**Re: in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:28 AM

A fistfull of liras <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:

> So it is more likely I talk a (bad) UK english; this is what we study
> at school,

Doubtful

> besides my english web site is on a co.uk domain.
>
> What remains is are there any important meta tags to better guide
> search engine crawlers (particularly is better: <html
> lang="en-uk"></html> or <meta http-equiv="content-language"
> content="en-uk"> and I if I put "en-uk" search engine permit also the
> access to en-US, en-AUS users, or only to en-UK ones?

Like other said, SEs must be able to determine the language themselves
since people hardly use those. It can't harm, but it certainly is not
going to make your site magically appear.

> Another question: can be possible that a server be in trouble when it
> servs sites'pages to a certain country users? ...I remember months ago
> my web site host said they were some problem with spain users i don't
> know why!
> ...in any case
> I thank all of you very much :-)

Check your error_log for that month, and check your access_log in order to
see if googlebot visits your site, and if you get hits via Google (or
others), and if so, on what words.

The following scripts might come in handy:

http://johnbokma.com/perl/googlebot-statistics.html
http://johnbokma.com/perl/google-search-cloud.html
http://johnbokma.com/perl/google-search-report.html

--
John Need help with SEO? Get started with a SEO report of your site:

--> http://johnbokma.com/websitedesign/seo-expert-help.html

**Re: in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:28 AM

>> There are copyright laws throughout the world which protect your
>> content - the problem is more to do with how you protect that
>> copyright and enforce it. The best you can do realistically on the
>> internet is to produce the articles as a pdf with embedded copyright
>> watermarks. You can do similar things with graphics, images and
>> videos. This will not stop people using it themselves (plagurising)
>> your content or even just copying it to their website in the knowledge
>> that you will struggle to bring legal action against them
>
> Contact a lawyer for legal advice, don't rely on advice given on Usenet
> :-) See: http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Thanks, all this is very interesting and easy to understand.
It's very difficult to have an idea of what could be the application of
a certain law worldwide. Now I know at least, about copyright there is
the Bern conference. I think I'll read more about it in this web site.

The legal problem I asked before really was an other:
In Italy if you want to publish a periodical newspaper or magazine
(dayly, montly, weekly) you need to be registered as a journalist, or as
a "pubblicist" (a professional who writes on a magazine), or sometimes,
as "responsible director" of a technical, or scientific, or professional
magazine.
Afterwards you need to register your magazine at the Civil Court, of the
town in which is situated the place by which you transmit your magazine
to the internet. All this not for saying: "Ohi I'm a journalist too!",
but only because a periodical magazine, not registered (on the web too),
is illegal in Italy. In this case you need to notice: 2my magazine is
aperiodical" so that isn't a magazine and then noone consider you a
serious professional. Besides you can have like everywhere a web site
for your own firm, this is an other case, or for a no-profit activity.

So what I wondered was what could be the legislation in US, or in UK
about this issue. I know (but I'm not sure) in US you can publish
everything you like because it is stated in your constitutional act.

anyway i thank you very much
for all these informations

**Re: in trouble with serch engines indexing -** 05-14-2007, 01:28 AM

> > So it is more likely I talk a (bad) UK english; this is what we study
> > at school,
> Doubtful
>
> > besides my english web site is on a co.uk domain.
>

Just a postscript here - I disagree that poorly written english may
have an impact on search engine results - there is always a big
difference between the way in which languages are taught and the way in
which they are used in practice by people who use them all the time.
It is all too easy to use a word or phrase which appears correct but
which would never be used by a native speaker of that language.

Take the first line for example "more likely I talk a (bad) UK
english". It is highly unlikely that people would search for "a bad UK
english" - possibly "badly worded english", "poor english", "poor
grammar". Bad english at a push - but never "talk a bad english".

Certainly google sitemaps and other tools can help you spot the sort of
search terms that are used to find your website, but alas they will not
help show where your site is missed because of the poor english.

I did French and German at school - French to quite a high level, but
even with a phrase book, dictionary and online translation tools, I
would never attempt to convert my website into French without running
it past a French speaker to proof-read it.

Rich
www.internetbusinessangels.com